Soothing Shrimp Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 What are the attributes of a perfect shrimp soil, if one were to make it from scratch? Bufferring to what ph? No mush? Lasts longer than 6 months? 1 year? Do plant minerals have to be contined, or can they be added with capsules? And how much would you be willing to pay for such a soil? $20 for a 2kg bag? More? Always love to hear American answers to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countryboy12484 Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 If it lasts for say 2-3 years.. I would pay top dollar. . I have a hard time paying $30 a bag for something that im going to replace in a year or so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Only attribute I look for is shrimps will do well in the tank. So far, my own opinion is ADA-Netlea-.......-Akadama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtletanks91 Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Whether it's organic or in organic could make a huge difference, shrimp can't feast or pick on in organic material. But a non organic substrate if it is made should be able to buffer ph of 'tap' water for 3 to 4 years, to a ph of 6.4 since that seems to be the general consensus for bees. Should contain plants nutrients for max 1.5 years of being heavily planted. And buffer the gh kh not just the kh, this way regardless of the mineralizer you use you'll always have a steady stable gh kh and ph with only the tds being the contributing factor of change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I still think PH is just one of the things these active substrates provides, not the only thing, not even the most important thing. Why I say this? I'll provide two examples. Ex 1: There is an easy accessible brand of substrate the most people don't like. It buffers PH to 6.4 for me but I never had good experience with it. I never had many babies grow up in those tanks. Ex 2: I have a Netlea tank set up in March, 2012. It's almost 2.5 years now and PH in the tank is still at 6.0-6.2. However, the breeding in this tank had slowed way down comparing to other tanks for more than 6 months now. I can throw any juvi size (> 5mm) bee shrimps in there and they'd grow, but just not much breeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtletanks91 Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 True very true, how would you go about making these attribute possible though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 True very true, how would you go about making these attribute possible though ADA + RO is still my number 1 formula for bee shrimps. I do cut corners by doing a few things differently. I don't do much water change. I write down my WC and other logs on front glass of all my tanks with dry erase pen. I just checked last night and decided to give them the third WC this year soon. This preserves the "buffering" ability, I hope/believe. I do some special treatment to my RO so the PH is low and stay low, hopefully preserve the PH buffering ability at least. Plus adding some humic acid at the same time with almost no cost. Now, I don't want to sound crazy...... I add very minimum amount of ferts, and MK Golden Powder, hoping to maintain a healthy colony of beneficial bacteria/micro-organism/biofilm. Can't say how much this helps, but most of my tanks are doing pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtletanks91 Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I do the same. I do water changes when the tds has raised up to or above 200. Only ro water and re mineralizer, unless I can't get to the store then I use tap water that has been sitting outside for a day with a bag of keta peng in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETAquarium Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Second Randy and Subtle. I usually only topoff my water with Pure RODI water. I then only actually complete a water change when my TDS is at or above a certain level depending on the species. In this case I remineralize my RO water to the exact parameters as the tank I am performing the water change on. I use ADA Amazonia and RODI water in almost all of my setups. In the United States though we don't have very many other suitable options for substrate. To answer Soothing's question, I think the best substrate line would be a line that caters to either a Neo or Cardinia species. Buffering the water to a PH that would be best suitable for either category. I would ideally like to have the substrate last a year and a half to two years, I mean really if it could last forever that would be great but not realistic. As far as minerals or nutrient rich substrate I don't think I would be partial one way or another as for my shrimp tanks I simply use moss, fissidens. pellia, etc. Last, I would love to have this particular substrate not leech ammonia. I would pay roughly the same as I would ADA Amazonia maybe a bit more. Just a few thoughts and my personal opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High5's Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I'd really like to make hi temp fired clay that's reusable and can be recharged using liquid humic, fluvic acids, mineral rock powder and other ph buffering compounds. Most important attribute is ability to buffer ph over a long period of time 24+ months would be ideal. countryboy12484 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibikaie Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Well, if you work out the recharging solution - and weren't some people already doing that - couldn't you try it on used up substrate? Then add RO water to see how well it holds up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtletanks91 Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Alternatively. You could use a peat base and have expanded clay around the pet base. Kind of roll the peat in humic acid etc etc until its sticky enough to hold ground up expanded clay on it. You would have a buffering core with nutrients in it. Crusted by a porous material for roots to grab hold. Micro fauna and flora to grow as well as a bacteria area to colonize. Now what's left is to figure out how long you can make it buffer and the ph lh and gh buffering ro get the right parameters for bees. Then alternatively make one that buffers higher ph lh and hh for neos. For cardinals. And you'll have a hit product. I think a rock polishing machine would be great tool to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibikaie Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 http://www.shrimpydaddy.com/p/supercharging.html Is Hyoushoku around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtletanks91 Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Does anyone want to try to make some Ada type soil? Expanded clay balls can be bought cheap. He trouble is making the granules and trying to get the smashed clay balls to stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countryboy12484 Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 I would love to... just wouldn't know where to start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtletanks91 Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 I do. More research haha. I want to know how Ada and such keep HW balls secure and how they form hem. Once I know that the rest is easy peasy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbarbee54 Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 I have ada tanks going on 3 years still buffering strong and I do water changes weekly. I have a Akadama tank going on 4 still buffering to 6.2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtletanks91 Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 That's awsime bro. I think it would be a semce of self achievement to make a substrate for the us market though how we small it may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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