00camaro16 Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 I think it is time we have a lengthy discussion on using plant fertilizers in a shrimp tank. While this is discussed many times on tpt, I think it would be beneficial for this forum to have our own discussion while we have so many experienced breeders present. I also am being selfish since I am looking at this exact question now. My hopes for this thread would to get semi-long personal experience stories and reasonings, not a short one sentence that you don't use them and won't. Hopefully this will limit the rumors and here say involved I'm this topic, I think some people end up having other issues but find its easier to blame the ferts, but I am no means an expert. Please list which you are using, or used, and how shrimp reacted. For those moss only people I apologize but the "I only keep moss" won't help those who only have 1 tank and want a mix of plants and shrimp. Thank you, Chris Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicca32 Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 the one stand by for fertilizer i use is JOBES plant food spikes for house plants. i have had several types of shrimp pick them up and eat them with no ill effects. with that said i dont tend to use anything most of the time. ived used those with dwarf baby tears and lost of light instead of co2 and it worked well just really slow 00camaro16 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtletanks91 Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 I used to dose flourish comp once a week at .5ml per ten gallon but I started noticing tons of algae popping up. No mortalities in my shrimp or stunted growth or failed molts that I could see but the algae was a big stopper foe me. I run a planted plus. And before that a fugeray classic. I no longer add them solely due to the imbalance with lighting ferts and co2. Plus amazonia provides enough nutrients into the water column for my moss and buce to thrive 00camaro16 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pika Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 In my 10g, I'm currently dosing 3/4cc Excel once daily, and very small doses of CSM+B, K2SO4, and KH2PO4 about once weekly. (I have solutions developed from a PPS-Pro dose calculator) I believe, even though at small doses, it has absolutely made a difference in my algae and plants. My BBA has basically gone away, no other types are visible (I used to have some thread, too) and my plants are growing better. I didn't change my lighting setup or duration (7.5hrs, split AM and PM, medium light from my LED) or any other water treatments. I do a 10-20% water change every 7-10 days. I'm still in tinker and observe mode, but am quite happy with the results so far. My shrimp seem, for the most part, unaffected. I have a ton of juvies and sub adults from my baby boom a few weeks back, still some little 1/8"-1/4" babies I see from time to time, and one berried older lady. HOWEVER, I have had my first failed molts in the last two weeks. Only adults, only a couple. I'm now trying to sort out if I've had recent GH/KH issues, lack calcium or some other nutrient, the recent climbing temps have bothered them, OR if the fertilizers are somehow affecting them or interacting with the minerals they need. The PO4 particularly makes me wonder, just because I know it is capable of interacting with Ca and Mg, but I don't know nearly enough about aquatic chemistry to know if it would be changing the availability of those those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 I *think* phosphates and calcium bind together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00camaro16 Posted May 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 If that's true, wouldn't adding more calcium with a custom made fert cancel out that process. I would like to add calcium in the ferts package but worrying about its effects on the GH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pika Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 Update - have continued my fertilizer dosing at the same small doses (every 5 days or so), but the molt-deaths have stopped. Normal adult and juvie molts recently. I'm most wondering if I had a spell with bad parameters a few weeks ago, and that compromised some of my older guys so that they couldn't make the molts. No good explanation, but wanted to put it out there that I haven't had any more deaths, and everything seems to be stable. Need to update my journal again soon, but I'm feeling lazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 If that's true, wouldn't adding more calcium with a custom made fert cancel out that process. I would like to add calcium in the ferts package but worrying about its effects on the GH. Maybe. When I was going through training for dialysis, certain meds could not be taken together because the phosphate and calcium would bind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtletanks91 Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 So you said that you dose a modified pps pro. What did you mix and how did you mix it. How many ml do you add. And how many ml do you add of excel per 10g. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungle64 Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 I add mineral trace in small amount daily with water change of 10% weekly. In the tenner i do 4% twice a week. This is the level i keep - Potassium: 15 to 30ppm- NO3: 15 to 25ppm- PO4: 1.5 to 2ppm- Ca: 22 to 25ppm- Mg: 8 to 11ppm- S: 4 or more ppm- Fe: 0.1 to 0.5ppm- Mn : 0.06 to 0.15ppm- Zn: 0.025 to 0.06- B: 0.01 to 0.3ppm- Sr: 1% of Ca- Mo: 0.002 to 0.01ppm- Cl: 0.002 to 0.01ppm- Co: 0.0005 to 0.001ppm- Ascorbate: 5 to 10ppm- Se: 0.0001 to 0.0005ppm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtletanks91 Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 How many grams of each do you mix to make a liquid to dose though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctaylor3737 Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 I used to want to keep a high tech tank and still would probably consider it. I had orange shrimp that were breeding then lost them all in a week. Paraeters were all stable, blamed it on the co2 and ph swing and didn't go back lol -Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pika Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 Here's my method, which is probably more useful than my numbers. I used this calculator (there are others) to calculate. I have these little bottles for my solutions. They're 95mL each. I also have cheap 1mL pipettes for dosing, so I wanted my dose to be 1mL (or something close) for my 10gal tank. So: I have a small gram/ounce scale. So, in this case, where I needed a super tiny amount, I measured out 2g (about what I trust the scale to do for real), then split the fert powder in half (like one might an illicit drug, perhaps), then half of that and put it in my bottle. Added distilled water and done. Due to solubility and convenience, I ended up with 0.5-2mL dosing for my 10gallon. For Excel: I'm dosing 3/4 to 1mL to the tank daily right now. (ETA Huh. Don't know why the pics are huge. Sorry!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibikaie Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 I add mineral trace in small amount daily with water change of 10% weekly. In the tenner i do 4% twice a week. This is the level i keep - Potassium: 15 to 30ppm - NO3: 15 to 25ppm - PO4: 1.5 to 2ppm - Ca: 22 to 25ppm - Mg: 8 to 11ppm - S: 4 or more ppm - Fe: 0.1 to 0.5ppm - Mn : 0.06 to 0.15ppm - Zn: 0.025 to 0.06 - B: 0.01 to 0.3ppm - Sr: 1% of Ca - Mo: 0.002 to 0.01ppm - Cl: 0.002 to 0.01ppm - Co: 0.0005 to 0.001ppm - Ascorbate: 5 to 10ppm - Se: 0.0001 to 0.0005ppm I'm very curious about the ascorbate. Is that to benefit the plants, shrimp, or both? How did you decide how much to add? I've done a bit of research into animal nutrition but haven't ever figured out plants. Please share! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungle64 Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 I'm very curious about the ascorbate. Is that to benefit the plants, shrimp, or both? How did you decide how much to add? I've done a bit of research into animal nutrition but haven't ever figured out plants. Please share! Ascorbate using as antioxidant here. My mentor who is a biologist and shrimp breeder had tested and came out with those numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowpetals Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 I originally used Co2 in my tank when I first started and had a lot of shrimp mortality (with cherries). I took the Co2 out and now I use Flourish 1x wk, Flourish Trace 1x wk, and Root tabs (although this month I've switched to some root caps I got from Han) and the plants are growing well (though not as great as with the co2 ((( ), shrimp are molting great and lots of berried ladies I have about 9 species of plants in there...if I could fit any more in there I would Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juancho Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 I have CO2 in a 90 gal with lots of plants fish and cherrys. I use osmocote in capsule into the substrate...I add calcium but nothing else....plants grow very well, fish are doing fine enjoying the occasional baby shrimp (those cardinals can open them mouths!!!).....that's nature! but the shrimps still multiplying so no worries.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00camaro16 Posted June 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 I just started using nilocg diy ei ferts this weekend. Since my tank is a 6.87 gallon I mixed the ferts for a 5 gallon and use that. While this might take away the ei dosing, if they are in fact harmful to shrimp it would lessen the effect. After 1 day my shrimp are less out in the open and seem to be hiding. But I don't think ferts are the cause. I also cleaned my filter out since my pump was running slow, while doing this I soaked the pump in hydrogen peroxide, then rinsed well... I may not have rinses well enough and they didn't like it. Also while cleaning my pump I notice 3 out of the 5 filter media's needed replacement, though I didn't want to lose too many good bacteria they weren't going to work without being replaced. Replacing the media and losing the bacteria may have cause an ammonia spike but since yesterday was mine and my wife's 2 year anniversary I didn't check it. I will tonight and hopefully my ammonia hasn't spiked. Chriz Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayphly Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 Pocket text accidentally. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 Another tappa tappa tragedy strikes again. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungle64 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 I just started using nilocg diy ei ferts this weekend. Since my tank is a 6.87 gallon I mixed the ferts for a 5 gallon and use that. While this might take away the ei dosing, if they are in fact harmful to shrimp it would lessen the effect. After 1 day my shrimp are less out in the open and seem to be hiding. But I don't think ferts are the cause. I also cleaned my filter out since my pump was running slow, while doing this I soaked the pump in hydrogen peroxide, then rinsed well... I may not have rinses well enough and they didn't like it. Also while cleaning my pump I notice 3 out of the 5 filter media's needed replacement, though I didn't want to lose too many good bacteria they weren't going to work without being replaced. Replacing the media and losing the bacteria may have cause an ammonia spike but since yesterday was mine and my wife's 2 year anniversary I didn't check it. I will tonight and hopefully my ammonia hasn't spiked. Chriz Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk I had used 1ml hydrogen peroxide/ per gallon without a problem in shrimp tank. Never do too many things on the same day so if there is a problem it is easier to figure out.If you have BT9 to use double dose, it may help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00camaro16 Posted June 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 I originally didn't plan on doing all those things. I just wanted to clean the pump, the media surprised me. Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibikaie Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Try adding Prime or another ammonia detoxifier if you think you might have taken out too much beneficial bacteria. It's generally only effective for a day or so, but that may be enough to weather a small spike, or at least buy you time to check it. Funny how you start with one thing and next you know, it's hours later and you've dismantled half your tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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